1268. I was led, guarded, toward that misty rock. (To be led to such spirits is not to be led from place to place, but it is effected by means of intermediate societies of spirits and angels, the man remaining in the same place; and yet it appears to him as a letting down.) As I came near the rock I was met with a coldness which gripped the lower region of my back. From there I spoke with them about their persuasions, and about what they had believed in the life of the body as regards the Lord. They answered that they had thought much about God, but had persuaded themselves that there is no God, but that men are gods, and thus they themselves were gods; and that they had confirmed themselves in these persuasions by their dreams. Their phantasies against the Lord will be spoken of below.