1636. How difficult it is for men to be brought to believe in the existence of spirits and angels, and still more that anyone can speak with them, has been evidenced to me by the following example. There were certain spirits who when they lived in the body had been among the more learned, and had then been known to me (for I have spoken with nearly all with whom I was acquainted during their bodily life, with some for several weeks, with others for a year, exactly as if they had been living in the body). These spirits were once brought into a state of thought similar to that which they had had while they lived in the world: in the other life this is easily done. The inquiry was then suggested, whether they believed that any man can speak with spirits. They then said, in that state, that it was a phantasy to believe any such thing; and this they asserted very persistently. From this it was given to know with how much difficulty a man can be brought to believe that any speaking with spirits is possible to man, for the reason that men do not believe in the existence of spirits, and still less that they are themselves to come among them after death. And at this these same spirits then wondered greatly; and yet they were among the more learned, and had spoken much in public concerning the other life, and concerning heaven and the angels; so that this might have been thought to be most fully known to them as a matter of memory-knowledge, especially from the Word, where it is frequently met with.