4043. The reason why the still more interior forms, which are also more universal, are as before said not comprehensible, is that when forms are mentioned, they carry with them the idea of space and also of time; and yet in the interiors, where heaven is, nothing is perceived by spaces and times, because these belong to nature, but by states and their variations and changes. But as the variations and changes cannot as before said be conceived by man without the aid of such things as are of form, and without such things as are of space and time, when yet these do not exist in the heavens, it may be seen how incomprehensible these things are, and also how unutterable. And as all human words, by means of which these things must be uttered and comprehended, involve natural things, they are inadequate to express them. In the heavens such things are presented to view by means of variations of heavenly light and heavenly flame, which are from the Lord; and this in such and so great a fullness, that thousands and thousands of perceptions could scarcely fall into anything that is perceptible by man. And yet the things that are taking place in the heavens are represented in the world of spirits by means of forms to which the forms seen in the world bear some resemblance.