5225. And no one interpreted these things to Pharaoh. That this signifies that it was not known what would happen, is evident from the signification of "interpreting," as being to know what would happen (see n. 5141). Hence "no one interpreted" denotes not to know; for in the internal sense "no one" is the negative of a thing, and thus what is not; for the idea of a person is turned in the internal sense into the idea of a thing-as for instance the idea of a man, a husband, a woman, a wife, a son or daughter, a boy or maiden, is turned into the idea of truth or of good; and as above (n. 5223) the idea of a magician and wise man is turned into that of interior and exterior memory-knowledges. The reason of this is that in the spiritual world, or in heaven, not persons but things come into view, for persons limit the idea, and concentrate it upon something finite; whereas things do not limit and concentrate it, but extend it to the infinite, thus to the Lord. For this reason also, no person named in the Word is perceived in heaven, but in his stead the thing that is represented by that person; so also no people or nation is perceived, but only its quality. Nay, not even is any historic statement of the Word about a person, nation, or people, known in heaven; and consequently it is not known who Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Israelitish people, and the Jewish nation were, but it is there perceived what Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Israelitish people, and the Jewish nation denote; and the same in all other cases. Thus the angelic speech is without limitation, and is also relatively universal.