9972. Afterward I saw spirits from the same earth in a place beneath the former, and I spoke with these also. But these were idolaters, for they worshiped an idol of stone like a man, but not beautiful. Be it known that at first all who come into the other life have a worship like their worship in the world, but that they are gradually removed from it. The reason of this is that all worship remains implanted in the interior life of the man, from which it cannot be removed and rooted out except gradually. Upon seeing this, it was given me to tell them that they ought not to worship what is dead, but what is alive. To this they answered that they know that God is alive, and is not a stone; but they think of the living God when they look upon a stone that is like a man, and that otherwise the ideas of their thought could not be fixed and determined to the invisible God. It was then given me to tell them that the ideas of thought can be fixed and determined to the invisible God, by fixing and determining them to the Lord, who is the visible God; and that in this way a man can be conjoined with the invisible God in thought and affection, and consequently in faith and love, when he is conjoined with the Lord; but not otherwise.