824. Many from the papal jurisdiction, especially the monks, when they enter the spiritual world, search for the saints, especially the saint of their order, and are astonished that they do not find them. But they are afterward taught that these saints are intermingled either with those who are in heaven or with those who are in the lower earth and that they know nothing in either place about their being invoked and worshiped; and that those who do know of it and wish to be invoked, fall into delusions and talk like fools. The worship of saints is such an abomination in heaven that when it is merely heard of it excites horror, because so far as worship is yielded to any man, so far it is denied to the Lord; for in that case the Lord alone cannot be worshiped; and when the Lord is not alone worshiped, a separation occurs which destroys communion with Him and the happiness of life that flows from it. That I might learn the character of the Popish saints and make it known, as many as a hundred of them who knew that they had been made saints were brought forth from the lower earth. They came up behind me. Only a few of them were in front of me, with one of whom I spoke. They said he was Xavier. While he was talking to me he was like a fool; and yet he was able to declare that in his own place, where he was shut up with others, he was not a fool, but became such as often as he thought himself a saint and wished to be invoked. I heard a murmur of the same thing from those who were behind. With the so-called saints in heaven it is different; they know nothing at all of what is done on earth, and they are not permitted to talk with any of the Papists who are in that superstition, that no idea of that thing may enter into them.